I'm John -- dis to John about social. The murder of the journalists often -- make gangsters who calls himself. A touch Jerry jihadist member of the Islamic state. Russia and -- Current invasion incursion. Domination of eastern Ukraine by elements supported certainly by the Russian military. An emergency meeting and Cardiff note this was long planned but. Remarks by the general secretary of NATO mr. Rasmussen -- to Saber rattling and -- gathering of the plans to deal with the aggression in Eastern Europe. By Russian. And then we have the president's remarks in these last days unfortunate choice of words when asked about Islamic state in particular. No strategy yet. I put these three things down and I turned as Cory Shockey who's writing most recently in foreign policy cars at the Hoover institution. Because she calls attention in new piece that she wrote before the president's unfortunate remarks. About the the president's West Point speech of this same year it's hard to believe that it was that close at hand. In which the president looks to have outlined a strategy now under way. -- a very good evening to thank you for this I'm going to read from the president's remarks that you quoted your foreign policy speech. And ask you to extricate said the president are most costly mistakes came not from our restraint. But from our willingness to Russian to military adventures without thinking through the consequences. Without building international support and legitimacy for our action without leveling with the American people. About the sacrifices required and quote is that under way now where we can see it in. The Black Sea basin or the Mesopotamia basin or perhaps this gangster on -- on video good evening here. I do think that the president's fundamental perspective on the world. Is that there aren't so hot in the action. But there are enormous cost actions. And therefore. There are no penalties were deliberating as long as he's -- it necessary to figure out problem now. And of course that's not true. There are costs in action there are costs and increased risks. There are costs in the strengthening. Adversary and the weakening allies. Most importantly is there are costs to the people there -- the plan to park near 8200. -- for people. In the two and a half years the president has not developed strategy area. The puzzle about the president's restraint. He's the restraint has been going on for several years now do we see a result of positive result from the restraint Libya for example in the news because of the apparent takeover or perhaps securing. Of the American Embassy at Tripoli by. Gunmen you'd only have to is described as a gang or a military unit very sympathetic to the islamists since. Is that the success of the restraint by the Obama administration. -- the consequences. That are -- in the past think anybody expects. Car companies would consider it six. So -- right time president's strategy. That is. Cost effective in the immediate instant. I the United States doesn't take action in the world and therefore we are not. Running risks we are not act like getting people kill me and I engaged in the group Warner. It has very inexpensive. Near term strategy. But it's an -- or -- -- profligate. Media and the long term strategy. Exactly -- thank you again. Which is at -- Risk group it's time. Our enemies get involved and your friends get fearful and distrustful. Much more inclined to do things but -- -- don't know where we are dealing. And there are afraid to take on challenges our leaders have. And so you know on time. Problems. If you don't attract and if you don't have a strategy that the way. Principled decision and that's not just the -- whether we're eating out. I'll ask our friends to coordinate their activity that. One of the main complaints that American I'm happy that they have no idea what our strategy and with no idea what to do to help. I think the short version is our friends don't trust us and our enemies don't fear -- let's look at right now the confrontation with Russia. The United States is not clear. But then again it's part of NATO. Does the United States exercise. Unusual. Power and NATO are we just 128 nations and we are equal to France or to Spain and what sits down in Cardiff Wales is going to be balanced by the president's reluctance I'd I'd like to imagine the immediate future. The United States contribute. 70%. Of the difference and and it is true that the lieutenant colonel economy and Luxembourg Italian. It's as many votes as the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff that the United States. That there is -- landing in -- there are equal and decision making. And there is now let me as early December -- I'd be. I was leading that charge where the most frightening and consequential challenges that. People expect -- -- expecting for good reason they just -- and we have for the last seventy years. Days slaughter of rule and the protector. Share our values that have not been able by itself. To create experience stability. But in the end it together. We can all do it and we cannot do that more cost effectively. As they try to challenges. That -- make it. The reluctance let's look at Libya within these last days -- your run of the foreign policy. It's apparently a surprise to the Obama administration to learn that Egypt general CC now presidencies he supported airstrikes but the UAE. Against Tripoli is gangsters some of these -- taking over our embassy. Is that the end of American power it was -- -- but that time that everybody said hey we don't have to call Washington. No I don't get it but I didn't think for some time. And accurate. Particularly. Those. If feel themselves most threatened countries and at least for the pain and and anxiously watching. To see if we are gonna try any red lines that they're -- enforce the ones that we draw. But it was they are afraid of is that is that the president ad -- -- grandiose terms. Without both. In the world but all I think out the importance. The United States. But it chooses policy -- Add in no way matchup with the objective and make it -- -- most egregious -- to. West and the president and upon deciding that we can't help lift -- -- and chart in Iraq. The president said. Some fat cats that come out. He didn't mean Americans can't help Iraq he didn't mean it can't Syrians he didn't mean -- America can help me. -- -- -- Italy who are victims and it on the -- -- we reckoning how he's very strong religious minority. Side rocked at the edge as. It is. Decree -- -- city and that state and and -- have to cart -- -- no -- actually have with a very stingy in management system racked with them again. And that creates resentment understandably. The number of times that the president has said that I thought -- pick out. -- three years into the spirit of the strategy. Cory Shockey is a fellow at the Hoover institution writing most recently and -- a -- a foreign policy about the president's West Point speech and the reluctance. Of the superpower and I'm John that's this is the -- message. And John. This is John best -- show. The turmoil in the Middle East a surprisingly positive these last months it's -- Pakistan Omar Sharif the prime minister. Going through the Afghanistan. Conflict the ice after invasion and then policing of Afghanistan and now it's funny fourteen. These look towards the exit of the new government there still doubt as to who the president is in Kabul but. In Islamabad -- -- -- in charge of a vibrant. Democracy I mean to be diplomatic here because in comparison to some other. Democracies in the Middle East Pakistan is doing very well except for these last days and weeks. Protests sometimes. Resulting in conflict and what you'd have to say is rioting in the streets. Now come to an emergency session of the of the parliament and the question of whether or no -- -- will continue in office paraphrased feet. It's an adjunct scholar at the Middle East Institute is here. I've depended on RF to interpret the Pakistan government for many years and because of photograph accompanies an article in the New York Times. Of what looks to be young men and women throwing. -- throwing a boxy container box all over offer offer another company -- box it looks violent but the reporting shows. That there is a new com and Islamabad. Arafat very good evening to you what is the presenting issue of this long standing. A dispute in the streets of Pakistan and good evening. -- -- -- on the dispute stems from last May's general elections. They've brought an illustrious who's the two time prime minister and it brought back into power. And at a party that came in third place in terms of national simply eat and -- complacent electoral -- Has accused. The ruling party. Bringing the elections. And denying it when it -- as its rightful victory. And so it has been about. Been over a year since the general elections. And and the party apart from that we can party led by cricket star -- its start out on. Ten. Has said that it's taken to the streets because of its frustration with. And -- -- government. In refusal to deal has its accusations of electoral fraud. The potential to process. -- you know a member of Enron Khan's party. And actually. Defected from it ranks yesterday. Accused. He. Is very contradictory and instantly -- a bitter accusations -- -- accused a couple. Within the military intelligence that was meant a collaborating on two to unseat. Prime minister of luxury it was spinning historic role of the military. And so it seems as it says that you know there's been this two week long. Sit in his own not led by Ron -- party in the clutch of other parties and what it seems that says. On who you know could have won. And the elections and -- that the next round it and and half years or four years. It's into the teens you know like the athlete like Alex Rodriguez of up to politics he's taken steroids needing assistance from elements of the military. To achieve political greatness. And trying to pummel it comes to power and the result has been any nominee. He is and rather than being you know part that's most popular politician that he was about -- -- ago. He's increasingly reviled in in the public and media and made -- have been mocked. And the end result also that of -- democracy. Is a lot more secure than it once was but a few months ago. The Imran Khan party or -- personality has linked himself with the cleric Mohamad talk here all cadre what does that what does he represented. Well our country is India somebody who has tried to frame himself. Op pro peace Muslim cleric who is an opponent opponent of terrorism inside out on in the world is giving up -- Religious edict against suicide bombings for example. -- live in Canada these days but for the past two years he's come to pocket on try to dislodge the current government. And you know there's been some speculation that he's been backed by the military to destabilize. The civilian Democrat. And you know my belief is that he's actually supported by news. Is that the substantial base of its followers to or merely art and expatriates or that a large number of -- the expatriates were -- And you know you -- devotional following. And that stems from a religious basis and is trying to convert that into. Political force. Some elements of the military have allied with him because he comes from the very obese sect of Sunni Islam upset. And there are essentially salukis and so it seems to me that there are some element in the military. Feel that. You know after years decades of supporting. Militants from. The other Sunnis subsite called the deal Bundy who. You know with the public on another that they have to kind of balance that out -- this is very proud and and -- -- Brody or so people wait. So is his background he comes from you know it is religious background and their might become in the military or working to support him. Also he had a very strong. Religious support base. In -- Don and also on the opt for community. You mentioned the military more than once now what is the motive for the military to oppose -- -- Shareef. Well you know I would say you know the military or army itself is. A it's a mistake to look at it as a unitary actor. I think you know a bit in terms of the intelligence services there are a lot of retired officers -- contractors. Who. You know have a longstanding relationship with the intelligence services. And -- a freelance and in their own way and I think -- there is there's divide within the military itself -- in the old guard which wants to it by the old rules meaning that the civilians are. Secondary in terms of the decision making process and the two. Know their role and and there are others who are key to embrace democracy and it seems to me that there are elements inside the military. Who want to keep electric down because he had a history. Supporting of them being quite assertive with the military these -- four previous army chiefs. And now this time around he's decided to prosecute. The former military ruler Pervez Musharraf. It was disinclined to go into the North Waziristan tribal areas to engage in military operations there and -- -- on. On the military had to basically put him in there. So and then they're also was some university -- some of the members of this party. Though they're from the center right background. There had made some very assertive anti military statements. And so you know all these imaginations. Occur within the -- of deterioration of civil military relations I pockets on. But you know today inside pocket on the parliament convened and he joint assembly. A joint session. And most political most of the leading politicians from the leading political parties. And it told. And expressed with you know there is -- single voice that the prime minister should not resign and you know solidly acted. X systems so this has a new moment in -- and history where it's historic historically powerful military. Has been subdued. For this round. This kind of -- pack of epic battle between civilian and military -- Pakistan at this point riding through a storm brought by an extremely popular rock star kind of politician Imran Khan. Right now no -- Shareef is sustained as prime minister our front feet. He is a sky adjunct scholar at the Middle East Institute I'm John bachelor this is the John -- I'm John action. Cor weeks and -- Understood to be very very smooth this. Artists the -- kingdom perhaps the smartest of Narnia. Now I learn from science magazine. That the cockpit coffins pockets has been observed in Austria making tools out of wood from his or her behavior. In fact they're so good and after they're taught how to use tools they make them on the road. Courts as a tool making it hurts. To learn more podcast always ready. John fashion -- dot com. And John -- this is the John vasser showed the murder of the American journalist -- and in the background. You will note according to recording in many distinguished publications I look at the Washington Post a British national. In and another orange jumpsuit. Neil and his name. We're told David Hawthorne pains so a British speaker. We presume doing the execution. Either the same one with mr. Foley or a new ones certainly a British accent. And British citizen in the background this brings to -- up Amare is most recent piece of the Wall Street Journal. He is a MMA is safe editorial writer for the Wall Street Journal. And he is interview with Shiraz -- -- A man who at one time joy and has but -- rear which is a radical Islamist group. But now is a scholar a senior fellow at the international center for the study of radicalization. It King's College London. So I have a very good evening to the prime minister of Great Britain David Cameron within these last hours. Making very and such a remarks about what is to be done with British citizens who have traveled and joined to the Islamic state or other. Talk -- jihadist organizations. And whether they will or will not have their passports taken over from them and will they. Whether they will be plunged into -- radicalization programs no definition there. You spoke to Shiraz mocks her about this. Did he described the scale of threat here. To Great Britain to these 500 moved traveled there. And two presumably to the thousands or tens of thousands -- influenced by the radicalization good evening to you. -- you having John. It this scale of the threat these possibly larger than even from our estimate. -- estimated 5600. As British foreign fighters fighters there are folks estimate cost 15100. And mr. Morris think that a 18250. Already come back to Britain. And I to have been detained her earners. Our defense they are within British society now. At various levels of reintegration. And it's a very real threat in and -- that -- yesterday. There was a rumor going about that -- -- London Underground bombing planned for the terrorist activities. And obviously it's a bit ridiculous because you know actually if -- act this type groups don't announce their client at a time. But the sense of panic and fear period then you know but. We have friends and colleagues who were saying. I'm not gonna -- Right underground today because. And has happened especially in this city and the memory of the July 7 -- doesn't fire bomb. So does that threaten Israel and offensive fear there you. Mr. -- her comes from having been a radical when he was younger man. And I take it from their conversation with him. That he does not regard these young men as. A -- continuous with his own education. What's changed them says that they. Reach for this level of violence in Iraq to -- -- inside his staff how key is in London and -- Mosul. And it will leave its part has to do with the it would dot org they're radical organization that that that sure joint. When he was in college that was right after -- and you've been. Raised by well the product imports of -- secular Pakistan British. Stanley and -- in Saudi Arabia worries that he invited a lot of documents and a ideas. Can come back to two Britain when he you know. If he came. Fourteen. And then -- few years later in -- the university. Perfectly effective their drinking partying and then 9/11 happens and it triggers their activate. So at -- and the American idea that anything yet yet absorbed in Saudi Arabia. And he joined an organization called his -- Still around founded in 1963 in Jerusalem and it's an organization is different from you know -- this type of groups in the sense that it doesn't. You know active participate in sort of physical operational. They don't. They don't you know plant and suicide bombings. Because they believe he leaned into the cabbage and other global Islamic -- for around the whole world. But they believe in the past to do that is through broad based political the political solutions. I it is through taking over an army -- -- You know that would he infiltrating an army -- that it it conducts a -- it takes over a country or. You know brought -- politics of course. Haven't they haven't had much success for painfully. But that's exactly that the differences between groups like habitat here and its next generation is going from much more extreme. Radical Islam which the -- hit and did they didn't do it -- and who are. Radically. And assimilated in British society in their options first second generation of the repeat their born in Britain they're born in Europe across China. But they have no sensitive political identification. -- -- society they live -- Even though it -- provide them it's a liberal democracy that provide them the with much more than their parents every team from from Britain or from France when windows folks moved -- immigrants. You know they think they have a great deal of opportunities they're often you know or even -- -- in some cases. They've attended university. And yet undiagnosed until I get attached an identification and with Britain. The reason that primarily is that Britain -- beginning in the eighty's and ninety's. Became. 888. Hope for is -- all over the world. The common and radicalize. Young British parliament of them you know you you know your identity is primarily as a Muslim. You should you shouldn't think of -- You thought of possessing a typical British identity. And that means that problem really hasn't gone away you know nine elevenths kind of highlighted it. The 77 months sort of you really put a spotlight on it. But this threat has. Continued. Despite various efforts by the British government at -- pushing back and rolling back radicalization. And it culminated now in that did the very extreme car. Of I fifth and expect it headings and and you know attempted genocide of minority groups in the Middle East. In your conversation with mr. -- he identifies three groups of -- young men in Britain who would travel to crisis the first he says our summer camp jihadist. The second are really nasty guys in the third our humanitarian jihadist idealistic. Who look at the suffering and elect does he believe he can speak to any one of these three types. Yeah I heard these are himself is is you know primarily when he what did you Heidi it was. It was political. What he you do where elements. Offense. -- -- -- Human rights violations and oppression. In the in the Middle East. In the Muslim world the animated him but each panel led down that this sort of malignant past. Of political radical Islam. And the analogue to that they are are keep our people who go to Kate secure line. The fighters against the -- fat version. There again primarily. Motivated by -- sense of injustice. As you know that the 200000 people that have been. Killed in the and -- millions displaced by the offenders teams. Crackdown on the uprising that began 2011. But they end up. Joining because if that these groups to giant. As the Islamic state and then -- needed to -- 88 changed humidity is at at Shiraz but it can mean. They stopped talking about the women and children that into rescue and the first thing we're -- -- -- -- law become. You know totalitarian foot soldiers of the Islamic state. The British government right now the plans are unclear. But there will be a penalty to pay that's clear from them and the prime minister's remarks it whether they've they sacrifice their citizenship or jailed. Or persecuted or put on watch list. Does mr. -- are believed that'll be enough to discourage the volunteers the young man. -- actually see it is as far as a certain type of these. Folks are -- over. There there's 88 large segment. That cannot be radicalized. The my corporate panic -- agreement felt that there there is a large chunk out. These folks that have to be contracted on the battleground they went to the martyrdom and the only way to you will be rid of the trouble is to grant him that wish. But for but there is you know in my heart controversially that. You do in this certain group. And minority of these of these ID card idealistic types. Or already know maybe disaffected with the with the life experience and want to come back. And they should be allowed to come back. And as long as they're closely monitor. And he agreed to the you know deep Greece by all the intelligence agencies. And -- live -- you know that they may mean maybe some sort of administrative detention. As far as going forward. I think that they prime minister's proposal in terms of some sort of restriction on travel and back is really. It might be good deterrent I am using. Easier your British citizenship -- and the -- and I. You know they -- Not a complete solution have to fight them on the battleground to. Yet to do every team and 22. Try to discourage. People from going over and to encourage their parents and family members and and you moms. To to send the counter message. You know -- this second -- kidnapped. And media should be a wake up call all of Britain that did unfortunately 9/11. And some have -- it and didn't bring about that there's a huge problem. In the Muslim community that still haven't its extreme problem and it took it about tackling the ideology. Of Islamic and it's not enough to. In a prevent someone from going over at the point of wonder about to depart wonder about they're gonna. To -- mission. And start way back. And have kids -- in the mosque in the community. And we mean including offense civic identity in the communities that Europe Britain's third. Your -- your solidarity and physicians as to the NC the British stage and senior fellow Briton. Not to the Islamic faith in -- not to decal. Sorrow about Mars is a journal editorial page writer he's based in London I'm John bachelor this is John that session. I'm John that this is the John that's a show. Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky. Potomac fever clearly on the campaign trail for the Republican nomination. And when asked within these last days. Ices the threat of the Islamic state. Senator Paul quoted by the AP said if I were president. I would call a joint session of congress that would lay out the reasoning of why -- is a threat to our national security. And seek congressional authorization. To destroy crisis militarily. And club. Christian lighten. Who is here to speak to appease that he has a bright part dot com about senator Paul's previous remarks about his intention validate. As president of the United States. Two intervene overseas to take the American more fighting machine over -- Is here to comment first of all on the on the senator's unusual remark given the recent history. Of what what you have to say is the senators reluctance to engage. And overseas adventures could aiming to Christian. The senator has marched to a different tune today is this consistent tear reading of his recent remarks on foreign policy. Now open to other flip flopped that this is something that libertarians have a great -- a deal of trouble with whether it's foreign policy or domestic policy and others. You know they can't really say what they think whether it's getting rid of Social Security Medicare which goes over with you know virtually no one in the public or an isolationist foreign policy so he's -- it. Modification he's gone from last week putting out an op Ed -- -- Hillary. A bit of a war mongers saying that the people who are calling for crisis is defeat in Iraq wanted to win. In Syria that of course is the nation's bots you know we're seeing a evolution here. In light of public opinion that is shifting but you know. Saying these things and also. Constantly reflexively saying we should go to congress that was the policy in Libya not I want these people to live in these people to lose a -- he should go to congress and the that's really just a process they have not really a strategy thing. Christian whiteness the president of Hamilton foundation and the author of Smart power between diplomacy and war he worked in the State Department senior advisor during the George W Bush Administration. Last January in your bright part piece -- quote senator Paul. I really am a believer that foreign policy must be viewed by events as they present themselves not as we wish them to be. He then gives examples the Syrian chemical weapons solution could be exactly what we need to resolve the standoff in Iran and North Korea. By -- leveraging our relationship with China we should be able to influence the behavior North Korea. Likewise we should be engaging the Russians to assist us with the Syrians and the Iranians. It looks very much like senator Paul resembles someone say Bill Clinton when I was younger person. Who would call -- friends come over to watch him play solitaire it's a man who once a partner when he engages in tough foreign policy. Is this consistent with senator Paul's recent remarks about ice is going to war I don't remember him and listing and -- assistant to go to war -- nicest. That's right now and it's switch from you know sort of an excuse to do nothing because really what people say. You know we should look at China clean -- North Korea we should get Russia -- -- -- -- believe it or not with the thousands and thousands of people were you know national security millions actually in Washington. And elsewhere in the US people have thought of this before. It's been tried before by two administrations at least sometimes multiple administrations of both parties and all this stuff doesn't work. But it is an excuse to do nothing -- China will lean on North Korea ultimately doesn't mind the human rights violations of the nuclear arsenal and it doesn't mind the idea of an unstable North Korea. And really the thing with Russia and here it's not going to want to get rid of its sole ally in the war on perhaps in the Middle East. In order to what looked good at the United Nations -- -- we -- no it doesn't really care. And so that you just have obviously have a shift from that I think increasingly. Policy. Not intervention -- -- much I think still has a lot like isolation isn't just isn't tenable for someone who wants to run for president when the world following a part. In you're seeing an evolution but the risk is that looks hypocritical. Christian. The president is much criticized over these last days because of an unfortunate choice of words about strategy and nicest. However they hesitation of the Obama administration does not just start with is this Iraq crisis. It did not just start with the Syrian crisis it actually started in the beginning there hesitation. To use force or -- use military force. For an end for perceived and stated the American people. Have been five and six years. The question for you -- studying senator Paul. Does he differ very much from the way that the president's approach this I understand that there are always talking points about process. However does senator Paul come doing decidedly profoundly different position than the president this reluctant foreign policy. Right if you look at at every single problem around the world a recent event the outcome under a president Paul. Would be the same as under President Obama essentially self -- in Syria basically we've had three and a half going on for years of -- there -- some minor arms that after. Many years made it to the Free Syrian Army. Really miniscule commitment and that's probably what what happened under a Rand Paul we do see changes his mind so. Originally what he would do and they're like Obama has just stay out -- makes some ridiculous statement like we don't want to militarized the situation even though it's pretty darn well militarized. I think in Egypt you know he had Obama really sitting on hand as Mubarak came and went and even middle of what it was clear Mubarak would not be put back together again. -- Humpty Dumpty -- and I'm still no real strategy no real intervention no desire to move Egypt and direction and you know it's not just the military to look at Iran look at when people went to the streets there and 29 that should have been seen as a godsend -- people of Iran trying to depose their theocratic tyranny. Obamas sat on hand -- polity the same thing you know. The libertarian and -- -- they love to blame America I mean they still blame what we did in 1953. Deposing a Communist trending government in Iran preventing -- from going behind the iron curtain is extremely dangerous time of the Cold War they blame that. For what's going on in Iran in the Middle -- today among other. Suppose the American sense. The libertarian wing faction clique of the Republican Party is hot right now senator Paul is speaking to a fervent following. He has credibility as a presidential candidate even though we haven't gone through fourteen yet. Is he giving the pop of the Republican Party -- wants to hear Kristen instead. Is he not leading -- he just following for leading from behind her following the Republican lurched away from foreign policy entirely. I think there is a strong isolationist current and I I was surprised by this first hand out here in California. You know after leaving the Bush Administration when it ended seeing how many people just want it out completely from Afghanistan or unwilling to to try different strategy -- like the one. That's suppress the violence in Iraq. And I think that's still persist but you know America's always non interventionist right after the point that it is not. And it takes a leader just simply point out the threats abroad and Americans consistently -- the challenge they realize our oceans don't protect us like they did in the nineteenth century nor is there. Sort of a Great Britain keeping the international order and we can just. -- -- behind our oceans. I I think you bring in Paul will be a player I was speaking to a former senator is an astute political observers thought. That you know it may come down in the GOP race between Rand Paul and someone else but I think someone else eventually -- Especially if if we as Republicans want to win more than say you know six or seven states. Christian -- is president of the Hamilton foundation he's the author most recently of Smart power. Between diplomacy and war is -- on senator policy and Bryant Park. He is though he was a State Department senior advisor during the George W Bush Administration I'm John that's. This is John passage.