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NewsRadio 1330 KNSS>Audio & Video on Demand>>Thurs 4/24/14 Hr 4 Richard A Epstein, Hoover Institution, Defining Ideas, and Chicago Law. Sid Perkins, Science magazine. Jeff Bliss, The Bliss Index.

Thurs 4/24/14 Hr 4 Richard A Epstein, Hoover Institution, Defining Ideas, and Chicago Law. Sid Perkins, Science magazine. Jeff Bliss, The Bliss Index.

Apr 25, 2014|

Richard A Epstein, Hoover Institution, Defining Ideas, and Chicago Law. Sid Perkins, Science magazine. Jeff Bliss, The Bliss Index.

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Automatically Generated Transcript (may not be 100% accurate)

I'm John -- this is the John master -- equal pay day. The Obama administration the president himself. Announcing equal pay down with this statistic 77. Cents for every dollar. A man learns that the result. Of years of discrimination against females in the workforce 77 cents a dollar. This program offered by the Obama administration. Is at this point. Important to debate because of what it may and likely will do to be recovering economy of 2014. Richard of very good evening to you Richard Epstein. Writing to the many problems with equal pay for defining ideas of the Hoover institution Richard teaches at NYU in the University of Chicago. Richard the president's 77 cents for a dollar. Is the exaggeration of a politician but in any event he's applying himself to the idea that women are being. Underpaid in our. Late twenties and an early 21 century economy. I'm not gonna ask is he right or wrong I'm going to ask how is it that the president wants to correct this what is his ambition. Well I mean the president ambition is essentially to try to introduce a very comprehensive scheme of oversight. To attract sort of detect what you because his -- does. What systematic anomalies inside the operation -- rule system and so we want to get public information about the pay rules that exist in the column. Situations where people work for government contractors and -- like some of the pay. Paycheck fairness act which is dead now at this particular point in congress do have a comprehensive system. Whereby this information could be collected not only for government contractors on federal arrangement. But also across the board and the assumes that once you do this you can either have lawsuits directed administrative regulation. Which -- ought to create parity back and forth across the workforce so. A make no mistake about it of these this used to be called the system of comparable worth many many years ago. In which the idea was that it -- -- that predominantly male professions like construction workers and -- beat -- now professions like nurses. He would be able to figure out what the worth to society be profession -- and then correct for the more to them now. Going to be very ought to -- the wages down in the -- it may help professions and try to do is to figure out some way to mandate -- wages in the female profession. This is a massive device Stoll rifles supply and demand it will create shortages on some side of the market and massive over. Subscriptions and caught on the other side of the market it really is -- amazingly intrusive program based on a hard legal insist that. I'm going to quote from the president you quote from him in your piece about what is wrong. The president says inside if I I want do is -- very accurately. That the same. Same same war same pay for the same more and you point to that works same as important to investigate why. Well because what happens is when you talk about the same profession that doesn't tell you exactly what the profession is. To give Kubel one illustration we get several doctors are in the same profession and that means that we don't draw any explicit distinction between the neurosurgeons which generally have. All the training and higher paid greatest select. And greatest special was stationed as a poster pediatrician. And of course obviously very important profession. But doesn't have quite the -- hours and the extent to train that is needs to neurosurgery. So it's in fact and then look at this profession discovers that the case you have more women in the pediatric cited more men on the neurosurgeons -- you'll -- Some form of an equal pay within the profession but it reflects cost differences in value differences it does not reflect any form of discrimination so. Which you don't have to do is still inside those particular groups and -- -- we now look at mounting their pediatricians to receive the same gaps. If we do the same thing to neurosurgeons to receive the same gaps. And the answers they'll diminish. Will they be eliminated will be answers probably not there -- sub specialty side pediatric sub specialties inside the surgery. And what you have to do -- to understand how those work. There are regional variations -- reserve regional variations of pediatric have to figure out how those work. There are different employment struck adjustable there is some doctors are independent contractors some work for HMOs. Work long hours of work shorter hours what typically happens when he used the words saints. Is that the 1000 differences that markets -- knocked. As an entity but the individual players in the market -- Or ignored by the president that this is typically what happens to these political statement. Would you do this -- managed in the agency's single phrase like same profession. And -- 77 censored and you actually describe something that consequence. One of the most important things for warriors and for economist understand about labor markets is how complicated fail. How difficult they ought to operate inside and how utterly impossible they ought to regulate so what I'm talking about the -- this program is misguided. My argument is not that I have a better way to regulate these markets in the present -- And my argument to simply has no idea how these markets -- to be regulated I don't pretend to know exactly how to regulate the the difference between them. Is I think I understand better than he does why it is that they assume the complex form that they do. And once you understand the degree of complexity you realize that the kind of fine -- that the president wants to put into place is that debt. All right we can't calculated but marriage how does that. I change the calculation and has it been adjusted by valuing. The work done at the home. Well certainly we know that marriage has a huge effect on. Unbelievable to be incumbent Coleman comes single women who do not obviously have children at home. Iron roughly unstated numbers about 96% of what -- do who were married that figure of course can be again in accurate. Well it may well be that the gap is even narrow because. It doesn't take into account the whole variety about the changes but when women get married it turns out several things happen. One is they devote many much much more of their labor in trying to maintain no particularly when they have children. And that's valuable work it's imputed income it's outside the tax system. That is one of the reasons why many women refuse to work on the the system where there income is going to be above the taxed at a high rate. Because it's above that of their husband does the second Social Security tax and so forth. -- once -- stay out of the workforce. Oh either whole or part there earned income in the marketplace is going to start to decline. When they return to the workforce what happens is they have not develop the kinds of skill that keep them current. Relative to what the men have done and so again you'll start to see some kind of relative to close. This means that this service is less valuable than men of course not if you're going to do this accurately. A what you have to understand is that that the total income. And the total productivity of a woman is -- the market in her non -- of labor and indeed what the system doesn't might do quite properly. Is that it's subsidizes home labor by keeping an outside the Thai exports. -- I don't know of any woman advocates would want to say well -- 177%. Of what men do 23% of that is added back in by. The -- looked into the labor so we knew what to do was attacked -- woman on the labor. But they're not -- a -- attacked for that attacks that don't know. Back -- you can't ignore that contribution. Is extremely important and again I mean what you're interested in his maximizing household productions. It's something that we as women working -- stay at home. Almost -- with it turns out to be the opposite. It's not my position to try to explain to the married couples have they want organist their lives mr. explained to the president when they -- organize their lives in particular fashion. What you -- is not the product that some legitimate force of discrimination. But it sort of rational cooperative choices between husbands and wives or in many cases the way -- would single women. There's this apparent manifest themselves more there's a surprising statistics here that income of single women. Is 986%. Of the income of men. That suggests immediately that it's marriage that is caused it to this distortion not the gender. Well it's -- it's certainly suggest that a cause the change but I would resist the usage of the term distortion. Well what it does that means that the state statistics so less reliable it doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with the operation of the marketplace. Why do about it this is most people pretty skilled in the ways in which they decide to navigate the the market the great danger the president's proposals particularly with the paper. Paycheck fairness. Is that what it will do is impose great burdens on employers. This will in fact reduce the gains when they hire additional employees. Because remember this the number that he. Quote is 78%. In 2014. Was seventy or 77 cents but that's 78 cents to six years ago. We've had huge amounts of labor market regulation that I've often inspired by the Democratic Party by the president and it hasn't ruled that number it. On its suggests that the numbers stable of really important numbers -- -- labor productivity and -- wages and those has stagnated. Let's discuss the education. Of the a workforce between male and female when we come back Richard Epstein is the Peter and Kirsten Bedford senior fellow at the Hoover institution Lawrence -- Tisch professor of law New York University. Senior lecturer in law at the University of Chicago I'm John bachelor. This is the John bachelor -- -- And -- got to listen to John best of show. President of the United States quoting 77 cents per dollar for female vs male he's looking to the paycheck fairness act. Not in this congress that in future congresses and what that will do to the marketplace. The subject of an essay by. Richard Epstein defining that is for the Hoover institution Richard -- report that. The female workforce is now 60% of college enrollees. And that there is an ever growing faction. Four advanced degrees also the fact that the female workforce. Has done better recovering from enduring the most recent Great Recession. That suggests of course that -- females are in a better position to take advantage of the future. Does that mean it will -- react this disparity between male and female. No I mean -- they have the statistics themselves missed several key feature is one of the points they did mention in the cult. Is that there's nothing that this number does reflect those people particularly males were imprisoned or otherwise downsized the workforce. All of those folks effect we've learned nothing. And so you're trying to figure out what your prospects are you not only have to worry about the the disparities that are observed in the labor market you have to take into account the -- will be higher frequency of men who were outside the -- markets for reasons. That not. Deflect from the fact that there there labor has some low levels of productivity. These things are not done it's also the case when you look at these numbers that the training that men and women get tend to dip percent. That the men -- more frequently into things like petroleum engineering which is the highest paying profession upon graduation. Almost. Than do women I mean it's not hundreds euros may be 7030 and so forth whereas in the health care professions which gently blow played. There's a high concentration of wonderment. So that what happens is. You go through these sorts of markets all you'll see that there's going to be different -- and in part you have to understand. That it takes along with the trade to some of the professions which salaries are higher. You would expect that the wages without the offset. The increase. Cost that it takes to develop human capital. To the point where you can do this so you don't want to simply take game one times snapshot of labor markets to see the way in -- various people compensated not. Which you have to do -- to think about it as a return on investment in human capital and look at this -- -- some kind under some kind of a lifetime went. And when you do that a lot of these disparities cities and deceit. Sort of equalized that is women get low wages when they get into the labor market. But given the profession they chose but they've also made a smaller investment in human. Which means that the two things have aligned themselves probably not improperly. As the president suggest. And it also indicates that discrimination. Can't just be treated as the explanation for the whole 23% of the difference is probably it could exist civil a tiny fraction of that. And given the huge number of explicit affirmative action programs which are typically order these cases. It may well be that the labor market discrimination fact runs in the opposite. You indicate that the age discrimination act in employment these Social Security the Affordable Care Act all point to government regulatory environment. That doesn't discriminate against the female it discriminates against the young is that an example of unintended consequences that we could imagine would come from the pay for -- the paycheck fairness act. Yeah I think you know they'd be it's a kind of a leading question but the answer is surely that's one of the things that we know when will doubled figures. Is that the income for answers that take place in the United States tend to be pretty systematic review of Pro Bowl. The young people pay Social Security taxes pay Medicare they pay Medicaid taxes of one under another. And yet it's going to be a long time before they start to draw them any money responses from any of these programs assuming these programs -- still plays later wrong. And given that would use is that minorities who are at higher concentrations lower. Age groups in fact are starting to pay more into the government and they take out of -- of the subsidies were in the opposite direction. And overall conclusions unmistakable that if you look at the generation called millennial sources say between twenty and thirty years of age. On average their prospects or less satisfactory than those that parents. They tend to marry later not always by choice but also because -- don't think that they have the economic well -- for what to do the things that they want. But I said this on your show a dozen times and so on now added one more time. The president wants it known exactly the wrong direction in the correct direction is to figure out every impediment that the -- the creation of the strongly for more it's. Although when you remove those things to do two things one is the -- course -- the -- -- And is more flexibility so that the greater opportunities from -- gains from rate. If you really believe that label markets are ridden with discrimination that leads to exportation of women minorities or any of -- group what you do was put into place something which is going to be of that that the well which is in fact the course of the very disease that you're trying to to -- this is a mistake that exports over and over again. Installed deceased funny anomalies in markets given these regulations simple place instead of we won't be in the regulation that's already there. UN on a double -- the two latest create gets further complications. What we need is a kind of -- rest for the government administrations in the labor market. What we need for them to do was to back off on the minimum wage back off on all of the Obama has stuff. Back off on the anti discrimination -- backed off on anything like family leave and what he would do when you see that is the markets will turn around because it now makes sense for importers are. Because they can pay their workers instead of having to pay taxes and compliance -- On the way. Richard I wanna I wanna bundle all of these programs that pain as a fairness act the age discrimination act even. The president's a mandate for ten dollars and ten cents per hour on new federal contract bundled out all up. Because it appears to me that the assumption that the president approaches. -- That is if not villainous. Certainly discriminatory is that his assumption. Well he tend to think of -- market as an entity instead of the system of elaborate decentralized decision but also to people both launch and more. One of the ironies is that the same time the president says this he's trying to build up the middle class. And yet it turns out that the middle class also consists of employers and small businesses who it's very hard but these kinds of regulations. And when you saw looking at some of the web sites that talk about this. The argument is all this plenty of money out there that these employees serve as though it's no big deal we just takes a fraction of it from the rich missed ought to give it to the war. Now we do with labor market regulations that are doing -- from taxation. And what happens is both of these schemes compliant together have led to the relative level economic stagnation. And then what you do you say what we have to have fiscal solutions of monetary solutions. And you know Janet Yellen is right which says that label -- participation has slowed and labor market's two week. Well but the stimulus is not the ridiculous that which you have to do -- to get the deregulation of the basic level. And that's something which this administration is not -- to do it's sad to say I think they have a very large. Fraction of the population that's on them so they've got the wind that there -- few worse folks like myself. Fuels and sometimes -- shouting into the wind being drowned out by it sounds all of which are less than productive with it. Richard Epstein Peter and Kirsten Bedford senior felt the Hoover institution I'm John bachelor this is the John bachelor show. -- And John that this is John bachelor show. A whale died it's always a sad story is featured on. Television networks everywhere when -- throw themselves up sometimes. On the beaches of California but said Perkins is here for science magazine to take this back. Nine million years. And not just once but over -- four times over ten to 161000. Years spread. Of whale die and die. -- a very good evening to you. The location is northwestern coast of Chile this looks like a desert they're building a highway and they come across whale bones. That are fossils was the ocean here. Nine million years ago and then we'll get into why the whales indicted all is this the ocean nine 1000000 years ago good evening said. They're getting done yes absolutely this is that this was Lucy show or you know again six to nine million years ago. That's how the -- kind of washed up on there and then since that time this series is kind of uplifted -- moved slightly in London this is mainly just a couple of kilometers inland. OK so now I understand this is beach front property nine million years ago now we go to the -- what kind of Wales. And how did they find them. Well there's really an amazing find in in 2010. Workers were widening this remote stretch in the Pan American highway there on the northwestern coast of Chile and they unearthed this trove of fossils and this Syria was long known is. -- -- -- which is where he'll he'll. Do the fossils that have been found a previously. But he didn't in this particular. Instance and in this sixty foot wide 800 foot long area where there you know donors. Helped uncover about forty skeletons of marine mammals including at least cities. At least thirty of these large -- -- and these are the filter feeding time those in the tons of cruel and small fish rather than large prey. And end. You know trying to figure out what happened to to give you forty skeletons in such a concentrated areas like you know CSI for fossils but. They go through and they've worked in the inmates. The lead the skeletons are scattered throughout this 25 -- -- -- foot thick layer of rock there. Kind of concentrated in four distinct players that you described. As these that the -- are largely intact they're not scavenged and scattered guess simply because the surrounding desert wasn't productive enough to support large comfortable -- Most of the play real skeletons were preserved Billy which will -- they died it's sees that he you know they've rolled upside down as they -- just like modern polling whales do in and they kind of remained at that position is. High tides or storms surges deposit emotional war. And you know ripples preserved in the raw talent show the cork incident that lying crosswise the current and put them on the beach just like modern mainstream endings. So so again the idea is that you have these -- catastrophic debts repeated instances that but what caused them. You know it it wasn't a tsunami because of the caucuses were really damaged. Because you had many different species involved it probably wasn't the disease. What the -- -- looking at is you know almost -- process of elimination but you know that does the fact that the there were more than you know one episode you have four different episode they they cannot point to toxic -- -- -- -- And what happens is -- The you know -- LD. They they they turned toxic is just like they do in many kids situations today. You know -- they don't. They died or in the process of dying in what you'll say petition in the poison got concentrated if you go with the food chain. The other species so you know including in -- -- lost. Could have succumbed after breathing in toxins wafting in the Serb. Or eating teamed well flashes the sloth -- beaten welfare. Won't know that they're they're particularly. Kind of -- Plant eaters they would be -- possibly win. And the -- Al. The poisonous algae that happens today in the same fashion it poisons -- If it does happen today it doesn't happen that often with bullying of Wales most of the mainstreaming you're -- they are or -- solo wheels. That the troops when meals. That either do a similar way outside counsel or just do this disease or other sorts of confusion. Is that straining themselves but to -- that one instance back in the in the fifties in Cape Cod -- once. Where you had a mass stranding of -- plea deals and in that situation that they years there was indeed evidence that you had done. About toxic album. -- killing tradition in that the -- the -- whales have been eaten him and coast and I. There's a link it says story in science now to a site that's built with. I'm very in depth photographs of the recovery of the whale bones you concede they've been very careful in pulling them out of the desert. Because I guess the road had to go through so they wanted to preserve as much they can they can of these carcasses from nine million years ago we're going to go now back a hundred million years. And from Chile were going to Texas Glen rose Texas but this happened in 1940. Why do we have these dinosaur prince today said. Well what what happened here is is. -- this bill researches clinched a mile on a couple of different levels not -- what they've analyzed you mean those those footprints there in Texas but for the techniques they kind of developed and demonstrated were possible. What they look at where these. This. Very link these sort of dinosaur footprints that were preserved in sandstone along the Riverside near Glen rose as you say it's -- -- -- -- These were laid down on a beach somewhere around -- 105 million years ago they were discovered about a century ago. And and restructure or world famous these days they hold you know both the foot first footprints ever identified -- coming from a sore upon those massive long -- a real force. But they also had the three toed footprints of by people predator which is you know thereupon the same group that includes kubrick's. And in some paleontologists have long described this is kind of a chase you know the notion of a predator tracking its -- pray along an agent BJ -- -- slight bit of drama. But -- -- really done a detailed analysis of the -- -- and and that's made even more difficult by the fact that the team led by fossil collectors. Carville about thirty foot work that the most important tracks in 1940 those were. Threatened by river erosion has so they were excavated incident to a couple museums and insist that kind some of them have been lost. What these researchers did was well this just. Really interesting they they they they scanned pictures -- negative taking taken during the 1940 excavation. Turn them into you know 42 megapixel images very detailed and then they used sophisticated software -- -- stitch those together into a single 3-D model. And using the sort of virtual reality researchers can now stroll through this citing Palestinian is that it's still exists in the original form. So bad mail. Sets the stage for scientist a look at this. Said the track ways. Better determine the sizes and emotions in the walking speeds of the dinosaurs that lift the footprints and then. Then in turn can give you an idea as to whether this same competitor really did chases spray along the. Good but surely it was really really -- said said that they are able by about the same time these pictures are really close as you can go right close to them there's a link to news story to them and arranging them. And it's it's -- if you're going into the the you're following the dinosaurs in this chase. Yes again it's like a virtual reality and and and you know it's kind of put together after the fact from old pictures you know very unlike these Smithsonian. Team that we talked about that the that the dig in Chile. This had to be kind of reconstructed after the fact but that but did it shows the power abusing this computer software and those images to kind of put together that model. I'm speaking to -- Perkins and we've been nine million years and a hundred million years and now we're going 520. Million years. To northern Greeley and green land. To the oddest creatures said I think you've ever spoken about to me this is a shrimp but it Jumbo shrimp this is a Jumbo shrimp that is never going to be served in a restaurant. It looks like a space alien spaceship that's what it looks like it looks like the federation is up against some version of the cling -- here. How big is this says. It's about two foot long and you know that sales modest by eight. Modern standards but for the time it was one of the biggest creatures on earth. It is saying these are very -- fossils. And the -- that the sound looked like five inch long Combs -- in paleontologists have figured out that those are mouth parts. And this signs on the Combs you know have structures on them even smaller structures on and so they they act like a fringe and all of these things together. -- -- middle of the creatures to catch phrase small is you know. Tampa millimeter you know 150 of an -- across about the screen sizes to these -- shrimp and they would like these map sports and bring the -- -- back toward the myself. So this this ancient shrimp like creature was the world's oldest. Free ranging filter feeder and and that's surprising for paleontologist. In the number of ways. First of all the size of this thing as a mentioned it was it was. About two feet long which was huge for the time. Although it's no relatives were predators that this creature was eating much farther down on the food chain and and -- only works if there's a lot of small -- to be exploited. So the fact that this creature even existed since suggested ecosystems of the time were much more productive than people had previously presumed. Evolution is still the sort of niche you know time and again in the in modern times you've got. You know large species in groups as diverse as efficient short and -- wheels were able able to feel the freedom and small prey. And in the past you can further filter preview still enrolled as well. Turned down this guy was way ahead of the curve that this is again the first known. Filter feeder and -- again they presume that it evolved from relatives that were preying on things higher up the food chain but. But -- you have that much. A small -- this I was able to. A captain in and fill this role. It looks like god of vacuum cleaners what it's doing but you know in your in your piece and -- now this is the same style that sharks and whales Hughes they sweep through smaller fish and then they filter them out inside their -- Absolutely there's only -- a story that shows a video of how this thing we give them that the scientists have put together they have video of penalties structured -- -- -- and it it's it's amazing to see them can't -- through. And and you can you imagine them bringing price run up to the mouth. So those those wings that was the mouth opening and close and as it as it used those what looks to be. Hairs are prolongs. This week the water and the small -- Well you'd both those cult like structures all of them that are you know again out in front air radio they are sweeping the -- -- and bringing them toward the melt and ended the range of urgency around the creatures very much like the the fringe of a couple -- -- you've seen the and they they kind of wiggling -- and that's the proportion. And the end of the male sports there are doing their thing is as these creatures Jewish woman. If we can call this a proto Wales said. Again this this is kind of a whale of its time -- -- -- and it's Kim were were the biggest things on earth at the time this -- this was you know part of that original came -- radiation. Life was diversifying. And you didn't have a really big things at that time you know the biggest things around were only about two feet long. Said Perkins for science now I'm John bachelor this is the John bachelor show. And John -- yeah. This is the John -- -- San Francisco federation. -- corners where the academy is -- that's the 24 century here we are in the 21 century. -- Cisco where Twitter is an apparently. Twitter doing wonderful business side very much live on Twitter. Is not exactly welcome in San Francisco by every one. In this very liberal town Jeff bliss the bliss indexed Jeff who is being rude to Twitter I thought things were going well good evening to you. There's there are host of people of course this is -- just goes so there's any number. Special interest groups and individuals who would fight just about anything on any given day. In this case kept pressing leaders on -- Cisco's board of supervisors. And to be a progressive leader on Sampras disposed force supervisors is saying something really. You know be the cream -- -- -- -- And then along with members of the SE -- that big union. They're demanding that there's there's an idiot and that tax break it's helped revitalize. That portion of the city where Twitter group in were other high tech companies have moved it and and where are detracting others to come in and help revitalize that area. And because -- successful and because it's revitalized what's the area did you. It's an area known as big market -- of the police call that there are some people still call the tenderloin. And it's an area that most people tried to stay away from if you were tourist you only went there on accident but it was a place that was populated with. Homeless where struck you. Heels point down the street with all kinds of crime on the street I had seedy motels check cashing places. Strip clubs. You know -- will bars posts -- places and the course or year they've really help change things by bringing Twitter some of these other than companies and there. The Twitter people continue because we're now going to a story that's even more difficult to generalize this is the great debt a Debra Saunders writing for the services so chronicle. I see rich people Jeff. -- is everyone in San Francisco rich. You you'd think if you think that was true if you look at the real estate prices and some of the yet. Some of the cabs you'd get going to a bar or one of the nicer restaurants there by. The truth is is sense is goes quite a mixed but a lot of people feel like they're being pushed out -- that. Protect folks -- they're -- in the air. And you know that's helped drive up the real estate prices it truly is you know that. That's premarket you know where people say you know gonna get the most -- and for whatever and try to sell it here and that's that's probably some people be pushed out. Now a pot party in San Francisco OK dog bites man but still. This a pot party and apparently attracted a mountain range of trash. That also doesn't seem unusual -- what happened. Well every year on April 20 which is known as 440 that your national pot payroll -- number of euphemisms for it there's a huge party in -- gate park which is pretty fabulous park itself it. It's certainly rivals Central Park in new York and other great parts but it's a place where on the report is April which is is artificial pot today. Tens of thousands people show up and vendors. And all sorts of people dealing drugs. And they have a massive party people -- or start camping out that they are -- before and where it's all said and done. Places of that. And it does this. Party have a permit to I mean this is something and it's supervised. Do -- of the governance OK with it don't they provide the kind of infrastructure that every party hats. Well it really it hasn't permitted as a matter fact. They tell people you can't sell things you can't if -- you can't benefit and the people do it and the fact is is the police say over and over and look we're not gonna arrest you for being our first sort out but if you got open alcohol containers of pierce selling drugs in the open. If you're underage those things will attention I think. We're always send out at the end of the day they -- somewhere near a dozen people on different different reasons for causes. But I think what is this year. The clean up afterwards was even more expensive movies bigger than it was before. They had quite a campaign saying look folks have more trash and more facilities please use them. And once again they overwhelm the system and it's just amazing how much traction everything else was left. Looking to a new record in 2015. -- eight million signed up at the debate is over says the White House. Eight million signed up despite all odds the bad website but suddenly in California there's a revelation as to how so many people signed up so late what do we know. Or certainly an incentive and have a respect -- acts repairs where she hated bounty for every obamacare signed up. Recovered California which is the government agencies it's been administering change here California. And that bounty to our knowledge was 58 dollars per successful applications is the daily caller. And 25 dollars per successful annual renewal so it doesn't look like kids and it's and it's gonna continue for years annual renewal. Jeff do we have any information that people were perhaps participating in this state they would get a cut of the action -- they signed up. Or don't but that's a very interesting question that's one of those obscure. Bits of data that is not shared with the general public that we don't know if they're worried -- made between. For terrors and and folks having their taxes prepared. But certainly it's something that the folks to places like. Jackson Hewitt Tax Service in liberty tax service and other places. Quite happy or about it certainly was very very profitable for them. Now my favorite story of the week from San Francisco free shrimp boy who easy -- Trip Horry is they have alleged gangster. Out of Chinatown there in San Cisco. Who is caught up in this -- we. In and that netting. AST senator legally view from San Francisco. And senator you know others in preacher Horry. Were his name is great interest or child were were were charged with a number of different counts including gun running trafficking. Bribery. All all sorts of public corruption charges. And the shrimp -- part of this what you have to say conspiracy remains popular despite that fact that the evidence points of the fact that the FBI. Has been whining indicting him for years he's a very popular fellow in fact I see here and a London newspaper a picture of him standing next to lieutenant governor when he was -- That's right he was well known figure that -- -- -- is so expensive as you point out. Millions of dollars whining -- -- guided and they dollar wine and -- him and that you party supporters say it is mere fact. You know. It's alleged that that you received about 50000 dollars under proper margins are agents. But isn't his lawyers take over for legal Mercury's kickback. Jeff bliss the bliss index reporting on the Bay Area I'm John -- and this is the John -- solution.

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