I'm John back or not hold my car. President major American Jewish organization -- as breaking news in London. I've waited until. Malcolm is here to report on this because fog of war we begin without confirmation. Over the London telegraph a very reliable news source is reporting tonight that an Iranian. Intelligence defector. Hubble got some best -- he he's in. Germany when he tells the German authorities. That the Lockerbie bombing 1988. A massacre of Americans and brits over -- I had over a village. In Scotland the Lockerbie bombing was carried out at the direct order of the supreme leader in the 11 -- ago Hamanaka. And that Syrian based terrorist group. The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine general command pflp GC. Is the one that carried out including the bomb builder that's reported in the front page of the London -- tonight this refers to events of 1988. There's also the suggestion in this -- that the US. And Britain. Both had this information. And covered it up because in those days Syria was seen to be on the doorstep of Saddam Hussein's regime in Iraq. And they. The intelligence. Apparatus wanted to maintain good relations with Syria. Well here we are 2526. Years later and that's what good relations with. Doubles gets here he gets you entangled in the mass murder of Americans and other Europeans. On Christmas 1988. Malcolm a very good evening to we won't comment more than to say you can read the story they'll be much too. To debate in future we don't need evidence from the London telegraph. To know that Iran is behind. Almost all the terrorist acts of these last years it not only exports terrorism its supplies. And it provokes terrorism. I wanna start tonight with your alarming report about the chemical weapons in Syria. Said to be a major success for the Obama administration to six months ago when there was a good relationship with China. What are we told about the deadlines for Syrian chemical weapons being surrendered good evening to you Malcolm. Good evening John and on the first issue I think the importance of this revelation. -- it's true. But the same importance is that it ties to the story now of currently that's missing. And evidence that an Iranian bought the ticket for that to two guys traveling. On stolen passports. So there has to be some very serious questions. About. About this most of branded it that if in fact it was traced to Iran which is not unlikely and that you're dead we see Iran ugly and the terrorists attack. And we see it also regard the chemical weapons. When Iraq and has. Engaged in this delay tactic it is good but I think -- Syrians. That they don't have to respond. In the way that they he had been in terms of delivering on the promise. By march 15. To destroy its chemical weapons production facilities. That this comes when they were -- the prohibition of chemical weapons. They will not be able to make that deadline and most likely not be able to make the June 30 and the deadline to eliminate the chemical weapons program completely. They say that there are now seven hardened aircraft -- and five underground facilities. None of them have been destroyed it's as of this kind. So the much wanted agreements seem to be. Being thwarted by this Syrian regime. And the department fired at least five development and to be Iran's negotiations. I wanna stay with Syria because earlier this evening I spoke to Tom Johnson of the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies who reported on the -- know storefront. And there kindred of -- this is al-Qaeda is affiliated groups in Syria. Firing gras rockets from Syria. In to book cop shooting against Hezbollah and other words the pirates attacking the pirates. Is this is this information. Telling you Malcolm that the the fraud the Syrian front is collapsing into Lebanon and threatening Israel. Well I think if it does that threaten Israel directly and indirectly. But. The story about what's happening because of I think it's really get bigger story. And it's not just it is is that this fighting that's going on in theory of these is because a lot. And in Lebanon. Where you had demonstrations by parents family saying that you killing their sons in a war we want nothing to do with. Meaning towards Syria. And had the numbers are are supposedly increasing debt I saw one figure that more than a 120 have been killed just in the last several weeks. And beat some of the year human rights organizations are reporting. That they've taken -- heavy pounding. It. In a number of places but that -- kaleidoscope of concentrations. Has a lot soldiers and then we feed its reaction. Inside Lebanon. To the -- added that the the people that they have sent there so. Because a lot of situations seems to be a little bit more tenuous stated that it has been. And when they say are -- are not cult cannon fodder for a side. As senior people in the Shiite community in Lebanon. Said -- that -- they gave this quote and it's physical too recruited resistance against the zionist occupation. That's one thing. I want them dying in a massacre about a month. So it's a lot. Situation would appear to be -- it. Now to the west back. The headline in the times of Israel tonight requires exportation. At a meeting of the revolutionary council for top. This is the Palestinian authority's political arm. Officials unanimously endorse the stance of PA President Abbas on the matter they're talking about recognizing the Jewish state. Over the weekend Malcolm the news was that the Arab League and Abbas. Both agreed that they refuse to recognize Israel as a Jewish state. Malcolm is this not the end of the -- plan it's on the front page. -- It's it's a very important to point this out because there's been a lot of speculation in the last few days over this issue. And in part it was related to its statement by as State Department spokesman. As spokeswoman about. That Palestinians not be required. To recognize you stated actors secretary Kerry said this is US position. -- -- this press reports were somewhat of the distortions. About what actually said what was said. Could be seen -- disturbing but it wasn't. What was. -- reported. There -- other things you highlight. Are clear message. On the part of the Palestinian Authority which is Papa. That they are not gonna meet even the most fundamental requirements and this is not a concession on their part. They come to -- ought not to give anything they come they only take it yet on this fundamental thing which we know the Israelis require. And that and you know in an interview. On his return from from the US yesterday said. That they that they don't seem ready to make any concessions towards a final status agreement lets see if there even ready to negotiate. They think they can continue with refusal because they believe that the -- will step in that they go to international court. That they will somehow get concessions because the message of peace means that by the west is. Holdouts don't do anything and we keep putting more domains they're demanding now that Netanyahu released the war torture of these terrorists. These are really severe terrorist who killed numerous Israelis were bottoming -- How can -- -- that would justify another release it to three of them in return which Palestinians have only rejected every single require. Mr. Abbas is headed to the white house on March 17. Right Malcolm this seems front and center the issue that the president must address immediately with Abbas you must recognize a Jewish state or we can't go forward with the peace -- And the peace talks local further and I think if if if that is absent. Then it will be who will be have been a lost opportunity I think also. I hope the president will send similar message like he did with his interview with Bloomberg and -- before Nintendo's rivals setting out his -- Let BP will do the same you know people were saying that it was meant as a message to about that he's putting pressure on Israel. And that he's making demands of Israel well the Israelis have available concede defeat -- -- go to make a similar demands. Of Palestinians that would defeat the kind of you know clear top. Stated that took these -- be Israel which a lot of people took exception to include secretary -- -- But. I think I think that the state Palestinians that they don't get the strong message. I've got to believe that they can get away with this -- and they don't mind holding at about. You know it could be 79 now he doesn't want to have to make any concessions -- doesn't -- have to reaching agreement he wants agreement dictated to Israel. Well we come back the full inventory from the clots C. The freighter. Intercepted by the idea. Days ago. Headed for the -- filled with Syrian missiles and more. After making a port of call in Iraq. I'm John -- with Malcolm whole line of the conference of presidents of major American Jewish organization news. I'm John that's from alcohol -- conference of presidents. Continues with a decline seen intercepted. On in the Red Sea bound for. So -- bound for China bound for Gaza and immaterial onboard were Syrian missiles. And 400000 rounds of ammunition in a 150 enough 150 cargo containers. They got back to a lot they took -- left and everything off laid it out on the doctors like. The old Korean day 2002. We were younger men their Malcolm was it easier in the old Karine -- days okay five. What do we -- these weapons were aimed for Malcolm why did the Iranians take this risk who were they headed to. Okay well this information now seems to be pretty clear what we spoke the other day it was still emerging. But. It's clear rule that this was part of you run terrorist war against Israel against Israel's neighbors. The nature of of the shipment. Is. -- indisputable that would be content that you don't send decried the rockets that could cover most of Israel. And send them in the quantity that they did 22 with terrorist organization it would not going to how about we believe. We think it was going to Islamic Jihad which is much closer ties and closer -- And more responsible to you run Ugandan. But -- that -- was and the ship and was due to go it's it started in Syria. Went through your rocketing run and then to -- was going to Sudan's. From the Sudan it's taken Overland. To. They've got to strip. So that was the route that was intended. I think people were surprised that I think with 400000 rounds -- pollution the cups and in addition to the missiles and other equipment. So this was serious session and then the question always rises is what got through that they don't know about. The Iranians. Their hands in this and we mentioned the Iranians before they report in London. That they were behind the Lockerbie. Bombing the Iranians have hands in much of the al-Qaeda operations stretching from Baghdad all the way to a laptop. I make the general point Malcolm because sometimes we go too fast. That these Iranians are the very people that the president and the the puzzle here is Malcolm. How is it that you can. Hogue grand died as a regime that conducts this kind of predation against its neighbors and say that this brings this peace to. To lift the sanctions and make them popular home again. And EU foreign minister goes there say they continued the meeting they pay no price. I mean this is really be astonishing thing that you perhaps you're such clear violation condemned by the US very clearly. Protested by the Europeans I guess to some degree. And yet there's no price. That Iran -- the money that they -- due to get the the continuation of the -- everything just goes ahead is it. Nothing occurred I think what would've happened to these weapons cut through. He would change to battle between Egypt and Gaza between Gaza and Israel -- civilians. Being paid with their lives. And NBC we discussed earlier would have with a chemical weapons since. In in the -- -- it's helping concept we know -- on the brink of bankruptcy -- -- there's they have. -- that they don't have money because egyptians have really -- there all the systems of Egyptian court ruling Poland -- Tuesday or Wednesday. In which they took the first step toward declaring him a terrorist organization like about the brotherhood but it -- declared -- step because most of them have anything -- in Egypt. But but it was meant to give a warning to them and -- Egypt sending all the right messages. How what is the message to them with this kind of the shipment was gonna come to to god. And and be able today Israel will certainly pay the price. And then there's no price demanded of up front and what is that -- response the foreign minister that all of this is all big coincidence because. It happened during BP incident and did some things and he -- it. He monks. And then the the practice we find out. That this ship -- -- -- for a long time and avoid with intelligence. Shipping bet database. Had him a ride that about thereabouts and he runs it for Anchorage -- in late January and lingering there. So with no mystery about -- it was about who was responsible and yeah. It continues not to be seemingly any price to beat him. This statement by the prime minister in these last hours reported this is that this is Yahoo! News reporting. The prime minister said we have been witness to the smiles and handshakes between representatives of the west's and the heads of the Iranian regime in Tehran even as these missiles. We're being unloaded here dialogue. A 160 kilometers is the range of the M 302 missiles. Which -- completely that's all of Israel right Malcolm but that's everything. 181 mortar rounds three and two rockets 400000 rifle cartridges. All right I'm just flagging Malcolm that it's frustrating to a person such as yourself so well informed and to the prime ministers so it's not. It's not wrong to say what is this what what does this mean. That we carry on as if Iran is interest in peace -- -- and the Israeli health organizations are the Israeli hospitals are offering help to ukrainians tell me. Yet they are right you know we've we've discussed that would make -- that they Haiti and set up a hospital in the Philippines. And aid that they -- giving to Syrian. Refugees spoke with the hospital clinical supporters well bringing people hundreds of some greens to be treated in Israel. Now seven ukrainians to date would severely wounded. In the clashes with the police. We could go. We may have to go were airlifted to Israel. Four and medical treatment wasn't repealed when it actually happened just two days ago but today they acknowledge the arrival of the and this was done through private initiatives. Israelis contributed. Paid for this trade because there's no facility right now in the Ukraine its streams it was a question of picking sides in the battle was providing humanitarian aid. And the puzzle about the Jews in Ukraine we've talked about over the last week's Malcolm that's still remains a very sensitive. Possibility. Extremely sensitive they're 171000 Jews in the Crimea. Anywhere between probably. A hundred to 300000 Jews are 250000 Jews in the Ukraine altogether. They have tried to not to get caught in the middle of this state say they're trying to protect institutions there have been some. Minor interest committee -- tax but nothing really focusing on the Jews accepted it. Tinderbox situation like this we know that that is always. Throughout the whole line conference of president. A major American Jewish organizations I've -- action. John that's. This is the John bachelor show. The Crimea is now at the center of the story of the Ukraine crisis. Russia looks to have taken charge by virtue of the fact that it's got the troops on the ships on the ground. The debate however continues through world capitals Washington Berlin London Moscow. Just like the old days of the Cold War this time however. I go to Leslie Gelb. The of a president emeritus of the council on foreign relations writing most recently at the Daily Beast. About how all of the capitals are miss understanding and misbehaving. In this particular contest. -- a very good even Jeanne thank you for this you have three recommendations in the first one is the most blunt. That both sides all sides because we could say that the Germans and the brits in the French are not necessarily with the Americans in this one. They have to cut out they what she called the viral betrayal what is that very good evening to you. Well -- what it means very simply is that they have to cut out the baloney. The accusations about or another that claims that they're making the lie is that they're telling me -- nobody believes. That those troops marching around the Crimea. Aren't Russian troops. If the Russians continued to denies. No one believes that the ukrainians themselves. Didn't go far to cause this whole crisis. -- their corruption. -- got a call which took they just to wrap -- -- elected. To the presidency by over half a million. -- And he was a -- and they woman who we put in jail was a prime minister before and she was a crock and so forth. This has been borrowing in the Ukraine for a long time. Western Europe. Tried has -- Ukraine into the European corporate. I think knowing full well or being stupid. That the Russians would react to that very harshly and the United States once we get involved. We've become almost the biggest hypocrites -- Talking about upholding the rights of statehood. Here. But. In effect supporting. Independents and breakaway states like Kosovo against Serbia. So you know we do it's can attest to. The Russians challenged the presumption that the government in Kiev is legitimate. They scoff routinely love Rauf and Putin at the claims by the US side note that the president of the United States is it and it is. ML welcoming yet CNN the interim prime minister of the fatherland party that's to -- -- -- party on Wednesday does that continue to make the crisis worse than both sides are a conducting this theater. Sure it it makes it worse because look there's if there's very little chance there. That we're going to get the Russians to Pakistan. Heavily for -- media poll and leave it inside Ukraine. But did you know -- When you go around playing these kind of came. Inviting this guy here. So when it I think that would -- was democratically. Elected even though it was a crock he was democratically elect. And when the State Department issues a white paper about Putin's allies. All you're doing is making a very difficult negotiation can -- the. I moved to the idea that there is as solution to this. However before that we have to check off what can be lost here and you point. That says next thing that has to be considered is that this crisis in Ukraine where everybody has misbehaved. Is creating the deepening the crisis in Syria and Iran and Afghanistan how self. I think that the -- in the crisis and that didn't make. Any kind of settlement less possible. We were just beginning to work with Moscow. And some sort of arrangement inside Syria. Against the real threat. Both of them namely did you -- is for us. These these guys of the war and so could -- the Russians. Had to -- Americans and America's allies and. And this is trying to make it impossible to cooperate to. Neither of us wants to see in the clear Iran. And now the chances of cooperating. To prevent a nuclear Iran through these negotiations is going to be more difficult and so forth -- seemed obvious. When you have a crisis like this. It makes it much more difficult to act on common interest elsewhere. In the puzzle here less is that two members of the united nations Security Council vetoes are at loggerheads. And that makes the UN Security Council looks like the old days where nothing can move whatsoever it's just debating forum with no resolutions. Sure on the name calling begins. Heroin should be into to threaten basic interest. They're going the right direction that the Chinese are going to play these games and anyone who thought otherwise. Doesn't understand. That despite the Cold War being over we still live -- the world -- power politics. Dot recommendation here is that potent must deal with the damage that he's doing to his country and what damage to see right now. But he will do real damage to his country with a you know they may -- be dumping their chests. At the moment and for a few months to come. I'd look what they're doing an effective making it highly unlikely. At Western Europe we'll continue to invest. In Russia. And those investments have been very important even more important now at the Russian economy. His stagnating. And we were beginning to talk to the Russians about some sort of trade agreement that's that's step on the train -- So any prospect of integrating Russia into the global economy. His -- for I would say two or three years to come at least and that that's the real price for the Russians to pay. We're looking -- elections in May indeed date was may may 25 but that was an agreement before -- college flat it may or may not be in place. Is that a resolution to this if there's an elected government does not solve Crimea. It doesn't solve it at all in making the the ukrainians in the western Ukraine -- better that there have an elective government. They had one before -- -- now. Don't make them feel better it doesn't solve the -- problem more the -- eastern Ukraine problem. Because the election is the next the horizon. Is it too early for them to tone down because both -- well Moscow and Washington are scoring political points at home is that -- views. -- it's certain values except to the leadership in these countries. Politically. Temporarily. You know everybody likes to see proper behavior. Federated always. Receives and collapse -- while. But that when nothing happens that when you're left with a worse situation. And they had chest thumping over and clapping. -- were you surprised that Washington was caught unaware of this. An action by Putin to put his troops and to Crimea. Iowa -- surprised because I can't claim. Could have guessed it myself. A particular myself -- a quality events pretty. Pretty carefully. I guess I should've seen it maybe our CIA should've seen it. But I didn't see. Any Smart guys anywhere in the world warning us accordingly. The ones who were closest. To this situation. To be perfectly frank about it where the Europeans. They're very heavily on dealing with Ukraine. -- -- -- -- -- They were much more interested in saint tickets. Whole Ukraine we will wait a little -- from Russia. Instead of going to Russia and say hey. We're both. Get involved. Economically and a basket case namely Ukraine. Have worked together on this. So if anyone -- in a position to see trouble coming it was the Europeans. And then didn't see anything. Leslie Gelb former New York Times columnist senior government official author of power rules how common sense to rescue American foreign policy. He is the president emeritus emeritus of the council on foreign relations writing most recently the -- it's time John baskets to tell them. I'm John -- this is John bachelor -- Second Amendment. Constitution of the United States of America. A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state. The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. -- -- Writing for Bloomberg business week -- as the assistant managing editor and a senior writer Bloomberg business week. Looks at the Second Amendment. From the point of view of a retired associate justice of the US Supreme Court a very famous -- John Paul Stevens now in his ninety's and still witness. Punching hard about. All the amendments but in particular this amendment Paula very good evening to you as I understand it justice Stephens wants to amend. The amendment. That language. It is certainly burned into the memory of those of us who study the constitution but I learned from you. That the adjustment to how to understand that language didn't start until very late in the twentieth century actually even in the 21 century. Had to do with a case called Heller what is that. You're you're exactly right until Heller which was decided in 2008. The Supreme Court had never directly address the question. Of whether the Second Amendment which begins with a little practice about a real well regulated militia. Whether that provision. Projected an individual's. Right. To. Keep and bear. A fire or. -- Heller. The Supreme Court said by a five to four vote yes indeed it does. Protects an individual right of a homeowner to keep a handgun at home for purposes of self protection. In so doing the Supreme Court struck down. He virtual ban on handgun possession that existed in Washington DC then followed that in 2010. Supreme Court extended decision to apply to the first -- and municipalities for that matter. Indicates from Chicago which struck down a similar municipal ban on handgun possession. Justice Stevens was in the minority in both of those cases these were there five to four cases. Closely fought. And he has now come back at his latest book with a provocative proposal. Rather than fight about the supreme court's. Interpretation. Of the Second Amendment as it now stands he says let's amend the amendment. And his amended. Second Amendment people like -- reaching your outlook or didn't do that helps. Right so well regulated militia being necessary to the security -- appreciate. The right of the people to keep and bear arms and here comes. That's five extra words. The right of the people to keep and bear arms when the serving in the militia. Shall not be infringed so clearly and Justice Stevens makes no bones about this is purpose here is to. Restore what he sought to. The meaning of the Second Amendment was built for Heller which is just shake it up to it protects the right to own militia excuse me to own a firearm. In the context of the military is serving in a -- although. To be honest what that would mean in modern context Serbian militias not a 100% clear to me. So that's just purpose he wants to free up. Federal state and local governments to have greater latitude to regulate firearms possession and keeping the way to do -- -- to -- the Second Amendment. Justice Stevens now retired he's 93 years old and god bless him of course I celebrating because he wears bow ties and price is one of my. He's one of my inspirations for wearing bow ties here in the early -- for a 21 century he served 35 years from 1975. And underline this. He is a midwest. Republican he is a conservative. Now that language can be twisted in many ways I understand it I'm just emphasizing that when he was appointed and as he served on the courts. But here is taking a position that. Fast -- we could say it looks like it's comes from the laughter from the Democratic Party what is driving. Justice Stevens how did he come to this. Decision to amend the amendment. Well the two things one while you're absolutely correct that when he was appointed by Gerald Ford. Just to keep in this considered himself and certainly was seen it has. A traditional midwestern Republican conservatives -- a man who has been a corporate lawyer who had served on the federal appeals court in Chicago. Was Republican himself. Served in World War II. But over time over those those 35 years you refer to he really did. Shift it in the political spectrum or another way of looking at perhaps. Is the political spectrum may have shifted I'm I'm sure that if you asked Justice Stevens and he would answer. He would say that it wasn't just that I moved left because the political spectrum moved right. Leaving me more on the left and I thought I had been when I began in the 1970s. In any event. By the time he retired he was Ichiro to political liberals. And one of the reasons that he was a hero. Was that in his view that. It do you in the Second Amendment and the way the NR -- which is to say. As me -- should yield at all times and for all purposes the individual. Handgun ownership. It's simply a it. A huge policy mistake. It provides too much protection to the right to people who want old guns at the expense of the ability to forge rational. Policies as he sees them to regulate gun ownership. And he doesn't we're not sure about banning guns in America we're talking about giving power to municipalities. On the basis of this language but a lot of press this again because. Paul I'm speaking to Paul Barrett and he's talking about Justice Stevens were calling an anecdote from Warren burger. Now no longer with -- but he was Chief Justice the burger court 69 to 86. And the anecdote is strangely dramatic what is it Paul. Well burger after his retirement. Was. Interviewed. Television. And he was asked about the NRA's deposition that the Second Amendment protects. An individual right to own a gun. And justice for workers said that this view of the Second Amendment was in this was his word of fraud. That's fraud was being perpetrated by interest urged by which he -- the NRA. Into making this argument that the purpose of the Second Amendment was to protect every individual's right to own fire. Instead Berger took a more traditional view that. Turn that wish is shared by his former colleague. John Paul Stevens. That the purpose of the amendment was to protect the owning guns in a military context. This is an interesting evolution I mean it in he what you see here is that attitudes toward the meaning of the constitution. Can shift over time. Attitude cultural attitudes toward firearm ownership can shift overtime but clearly. In the early 1990s when just -- lately justice Berger was speaking. -- that particular judicial conservative. Saw the Second Amendment has much less expansive than today's Supreme Court she's -- There's a subplot here and I'll speak to it because I am a Republican the son of -- Republican the grandson of a Republican. From Pennsylvania. On an additional inside here is that two Republican justices both of them understood. And still understood his conservative one Chief Justice one associate justice. One of them serving into the 21 century so certainly well informed of the vicissitudes of American political life today both Republicans. Have a united opinion that the Second Amendment is distorted or a fraud as being perpetrated in the the subplot Paul I think is it we're seeing a Republican Party that still here that was always here. That my family represents from the East Coast of the pencil of of the of of the east and United States. These are the states that have been overwhelmed with blue the blue collar and that there are no Republican representatives in all of new England and very few left on the East Coast of the United States in general until you go south -- or in the middle south. But we're seeing an older Republican that really didn't die out it just doesn't get much play in the -- Yeah well I mean and I don't know what to tell you about whether it's died out or not but certainly. The traditional. You know moderate strain. Republicanism. That you. Grew up with and your family. Has lost a lot of influence I mean you know -- is that the days of Nelson Rockefeller and Jacob Javits. And even you could say the days of Richard Nixon who on many domestic issues. Race relations being just one of them had what was for the sixties and seventies the very moderate positions. But those days are over and the Republican Party is now as we know. Heavily influenced by the Tea Party wing which isn't to say that all Republicans are part of the Tea Party movement. But they are intimidated by it so do you see you know even the leaders sit in the House of Representatives. Really swayed by much more conservative. If at times libertarian advertiser is very socially conservative views. And one. The planks in that more extreme. Republican platform is that the Second Amendment. Is of very expansive very libertarian declaration. That associates gun ownership with the very idea of being American and this is different from conservative views. It in the sixties and seventies we've we've seen change on this. Paul Barrett is assistant managing editor senior writer Bloomberg business week the new book from Justice Stevens is six amendments. How and why we should change the constitution we've just spoken of one of them. I'm John bachelor this is the John that's -- -- It is unhappy learned that the MIA search of the Pentagon uses DNA technology at the very end. Almost an afterthought. To learn more podcast always ready John -- show dot com.