Yeah. Yeah. It's. It's. News. I'm John bachelor -- my colleague and co -- that is when Cotter WJR the great voice the Great Lakes is with me tonight we turn to congress and we welcome David -- Chief political correspondent covering congress for the Washington. Examiner and right now we're look examining. Let's talk a -- on the -- and -- I want to -- David out on this because I'm reading game at the beginning at 627 tonight Harry Reid the majority leader led. 28 members of the democratic senate. To talk all night about climate change. David to what -- did the senators not need their sleep to that gets sandwiches on the floor. Is it is this alarming given the state of the country right now good evening -- -- Davey Johnson I suppose there's a Google saying the cloak room well I think that this is part of the democrats' strategy. Trying to motivate their they show up in the mid term election -- A -- the president aren't good they're sort of exalt themselves from a policy perspective they're not pushing anything. The two really great and or you know really. What liberals progressives strive for and so they've gone with a lot of important for small ball efforts. To try and sort of open and the turnout model which is usually Republicans have a much better turnout model in recent mid term elections. Democrats have done better in the recent presidential elections within just -- to me about this is there they're gonna talk all night. But there's no bill -- policy in mind it's just. Our climate change bad we won't fix it and climate change to niners bad. In the should go away. You know this is a lot different then. We saw recently from a couple Republicans. Who at least we're dealing with issues at hand where you have Rand Paul. Protest scenes and it state policy and want something from the president and literally sort Austria and and -- -- little wasn't so buster was dealing with that the deep under shut down. Issues that he helped cause and it was an issue at hand and so this -- Really a great stage craft -- theater which which on a big -- and a so made every Monday birdie on but. It's not -- really don't -- do that much except probably excited. Democratic -- Thaddeus is climate change all night going to excite the Democrats of Michigan. No I think it cuts across. Their base vote to blue collar vote although they've tried. To sell the concept of green collar jobs. They're not going to be particularly enamored of this the environmental wing of their party. Is going to look at this is why is the democratic senate majority demanding that the democratic senate majority do something. So it's almost an admission of failure to take to the floor and do this. And again with the blue collar base and many of these democratic states I don't know who's gonna put much pressure on their fellow Democrats. From coal country or elsewhere. To actually get on board with -- David a man who is from Michigan. Dave Camp chair of the house and ways committee. Is taking on a very serious issue. Quite overwhelming in fact tax reform what do this David in in a mid term year where the Republicans -- everything going for them about health care why tax reform. But the great question John this is something that Whitney instrument worked on since he took over the committee. In 2011. After Republicans took control of the house. He put together bipartisan working groups try to created document actually passed. Instigate environment. A Republican -- democratic senate and President Obama in the White House. The plan was formed by the president's. Winning message -- active in 2012 which is that we should raise taxes on the wealthy because that's fair as opposed to. The typical Republican plan which is across the board tax cuts for everybody. So the the chairman took on a lot of sacred cows mortgage interest deduction for homes. Some -- to Wall Street that deduction for state and local -- excellent education related. Tax breaks and you really try to design the document designed for job growth economic growth. Tax code simplification. And he did produce one -- -- least according to the nonpartisan. A score keepers in congress. Would create two million jobs would. Inject 3.4 million. 3.4 trillion dollars -- the economy. And so I don't know why did he do it -- and it absolutely no chance of happiness here whatsoever no country. Well it could be because he is term limited and cannot continue his ways and means chairman after this year. And it could also be that things like this usually take not just maybe a couple of Beers produced a couple of years of public debate. Actually get to a committee mark up -- debate passage etc. He wanted to start that now so that maybe three or four years from now this could actually happen in the final -- Is that he. Probably want to make sure I would think that whatever -- reform plan might ask the future. Debate a lot of his work that he believed that he thinks it's good for the economy and it's good for the country. Itself but putting that well there it becomes possibly a template. For the conversation. And even on very way to meet chairman all client -- the particular committee next year. That is. Well I think by its very nature it's designed to pass as you said David. As -- through President Obama through democratic senator Republican House it becomes very transient in and of itself. Because that circumstance going to change. Generally I think that what happens is -- presidential candidate comes forward -- public contribute to Democrat with their own tax plan that forms the outline or template. For the type of action it will happen now we saw with Kemp Roth Jack Kemp and other people were driving that train some maybe some of the ideas can be salvaged shot of this. But I generally think that that's going to happen is that over time both mr. Ryan who's a very. Capable legislator who has his own decided views on this issue. And most importantly a president is going to have their own views which shall take much of this and render it a very nice effort put. Thanks. He can't argue with that that's very possible. And that's one of the reasons some some people are asking the question but. Not so much in a defensive Dave Camp but in a way of understanding where he was content from. The way he looked at and that he would share of the tax treatment. Every Republican in Washington and even a lot of Democrats who are your country you Patrick for the sake. There are about to do something about that I created a plan. That. Protective Republicans -- so the attacks from the last -- at the very potent. In terms of whether or not a tax plan to distribute truly neutral mediator don't shift the burden from a wealthy little less wealthy. That it doesn't add to the deficit because. Usually this score keepers don't score. What they called dynamic scoring meaning -- outscored the tax revenues come from economic growth. As a long way to impact. The deficit and the death and so you get a lot of tax reform plan that cut taxes in the immediate criticism. Is well that you're taking revenue related or that deficit that's been repaired easily activate because everybody so certain about that so. What's also if I can David it's also one of the problems that Republicans have with discussing tax reform or tax relief. Because the way they say it's going to cost the government number one you keeping your money doesn't cost government because it's not their money to begin with. When it is a government has cost you money and take it out and I'm not blaming you I'm just saying this current roster wanted to see Republicans haven't made that case. And one of the things it's. -- three point that you bring up because in my reporting of the can't plan. I noted that when you've just said used to be what Republicans sent about sex. We don't have to justify it. Because that's the people's money so we don't have to raise their taxes on the right. The make up for giving them back where their money on the left not -- -- -- but you know one into the and that has changed at least for now because the president. Message. On taxes was more effective including twelve. In the Republican message now could be because they -- -- -- but the point here. They became very sensitive to that and Republicans have. Been so concerned about the debt the deficit that's been very open very susceptible to worry about how to accept the fact. Immediate revenue. Well David if I can -- one Jonathan Mayo only discussed and one of the concerns. That has been voiced I think it was voiced earlier on the show. In the past was one of progressive income tax reaches the point where fewer people pay and then take out. You reach a tipping point where taxes just continue to spiral and productivity continues to get drained for the redistribution of wealth. How does the camp plan address that if there's. We have a little less than a minute to. Well I. I think it can't plan spoke of necessarily. Address that but it does Wear you down. Race generally and simplified code and we're trying to do is they Washington less intrusive in the economy. And I think it would argue that by doing a little while the deduction. And tax breaks in a -- code it's getting Washington out of the economy and letting the private sector it would. David Drucker of Washington examiner covering Capitol Hill where there's talk a Thon going on right now if -- Idol and when a drive over to the senate building I'm sure they'd welcome you into the gallery to watch 28 members of the democratic senate. Talk all night about. Climate change. I won't say anything about -- there. That is in the Cotter of WJR the great voice of the Great Lakes thank you Thaddeus I'm John bachelor. I'm John that this is the John baptism. Fog of war Libya. Eight tanker. Perhaps attached to North Korea. Docking at a Libyan port -- very important part because it's where they get oil out of the country. This is the center now of the dispute fog of war nothing is clear I go to David Kilpatrick. Kirkpatrick. Is reporting for the New York Times. He is the Cairo bureau chief however the reports here about Libya. Especially about the eastern Libyan tribes led by what David describes is a charismatic 33 year old man named Ibrahim -- fraud. And what claim they have to this oil David a very good evening to thank you very much first of all. Do we know the status right now of this oil tanker or whoever sent it there and wherever ideas. No we do not. The oil tanker and look forward the government the traditional -- Our shared that can control the character however it's about who wore it turned out he calls. The rebels consider that the -- there are a lot of wary however. Also shattered shell yesterday I always return. There's some doubt whether anyone's. Would be willing to receive your body oils and that the -- you're government. And called it out side toward anybody in his party at all. Is receiving oil we will be legally liable. For keeping the club. Are you probably wondered what color are -- that the situation is. First of all you've got to know that there are almost yoga move that that triggered a government -- more and after. -- colonel Qaddafi -- yet to establish any kind of credible power through force and police force so most of -- stretch our blocks. It doesn't matter any -- In this context. Regional group and each republic 101 of the greater here. Of the country's enormous. Well there you go forward jointly in court yeah I decided about. Seven months backers so that would block she's the most important. Ports correct. And here we have to control it forward through the demand -- oil now. That's good bad. Speaking with David Kirkpatrick David. Why is it that the prime minister of the country does not have control of this oil port you say that there's no governance. In Libya to speak -- the interim government is not in control I noting your story that the Libyan navy fired shots that amount teased conquer. Tanker in January when it tried to load oil at this port. Is this port this area a particular problem for the central government. Yes she did come on Barack. Militia in the eastern region -- country led by. Decided that there aren't sure at all low oil out of the green oil port in order to demand a greater share of the oil -- -- region are. It would. He beat me because it actually broke her short term. But what stroke has occurred which operate with they'll -- -- it was purely in Libya it was -- mutual later -- the rebels who can't control report. And threatening her while they were current go to the -- there are. Which were being heard all the blog on -- Butler which relies entirely oil. All the all eternity toilet like look their economy as low carbon budget. And -- -- -- anchor good morning glory artwork Mercury. It did it would really be a grave blow. The fortunes of -- of the country Libya. However it turns out that -- outlook oil may be easier than disposing. Yeah -- -- Gilbert. Good spirit that the year political will you step is electric collars worn it but you received -- could create a legal card. And -- are clear ready or willing to welcome aboard Gloria and by. I noted your report is well that the eastern province here and make -- Is odd feeling left out of all the considerations in Tripoli Tripoli Cheney is the western province is the country fragmented not just. Because of the oil but because of the governance of these two large provinces. Well she's always been very fragmented. Libya would govern. Is pretty independent -- Or the error. Our troops -- up and show right around with Carter -- -- to power in nineteen. Six. -- -- -- You know it never had that straw -- actually unity. -- was that like controller you're in the central government the government. Use good read or can't get it that -- -- all regional -- interest. And make it you'll start connected -- to central government. Now we're seeing that in -- legal or covered aren't in -- being kind of dialogue on the all the interest that will be there including on the church. Final question mr. aside Don the interim head of the government in Tripoli. I he used to a force in January. He's threatening to use force here to have -- the air force attack this tanker is not a credible threat. It does not seem to -- could be a credible threat archer who was really aren't that alleged. Ball striker -- and not a lot of witnesses. May have had a boat or true. But you know -- at our league and everywhere saw that checkered coming up so oil. Your military -- can actually get it to you are familiar -- region accounts. Our end here so called military did not responders did not so you publicly expressed her actual result. And I think that's about -- -- that in terms in being able to issue any credible. David Kirkpatrick is the New York Times bureau chief in Cairo reporting on the fog of war in Libya. A very troubled state. Now with the rebels or. Individuals. Going on their own way trying to sell oil. There is no clarity in the reporting coming out of Europe at this time. I'm John bachelor this is the John bachelor show. It is unhappy learned that the MIA search the Pentagon uses DNA technology. At the very end. Almost an afterthought. To learn more podcast always reading John -- showed dot com. -- -- What does it mean to be a believer in the group that comes to be identified as well one way of looking at the world. In American history because of the excitement of religious awakening over these last centuries there have been a number of organizations. Back gatherings. Ideas. Leaders. Outspoken. In visionaries who -- be around them cult behavior. And James Cesar professor of politics universe Virginia and a senior felt the Hoover institution has written up American history and applied it to what is now. A very obvious disappointment by the supporters of the president of the United States. From the election 2008 in 2012. Professor of very good evening to you James welcome. The analysis you apply to -- -- -- -- is to a man named William Miller who lived a long time ago and had a vision of the end of the world who was -- Well he was very. Soldier -- and AP in the where they teach well. And after that he went home a little bit dissatisfied with things began to read the Bible came up with that new way of calculating the chronology of the Bible. And a little bit later on he started talking about this but it figured out what the advent Whitcomb that -- -- second coming of Christ. And he calculated that that period in which that would happen. And all of a sudden people began to form around Miller. Call themselves Miller writes those who believe that the end it was the common that he was the -- to a predicted it is finally got -- payment date -- single state. In 1844. October 22. When -- -- it would come it came. The date and nothing much happened. And that's what was known in American history as the great disappointment. What do you do when that date is come and what was promised was not delivered. And therein lies the historical. Model that can be applied to a number of instances in American politics but we're gonna take it right up to. The tooth a 12012. Election and what followed the -- as the year 2013. Which was the year of the Affordable Care Act. There -- additional ironies here now that we're in 2014 and were re fighting the Cold War. But these supporters of President Obama electing him size of -- in 2008 and then also sizable in 2012. Disappointment. And a James -- point to some of the strongest voices in the first Obama administration. Now acknowledging that the president had a very bad year. Has that pushed them away from the president are they all finding their own a bit of their own ways of expressing this. Well you're right to 213 I think many people begin to recognize or admit. Or -- -- acknowledged that the advent that they had expected had not occurred. It was impossible I think that I think otherwise. 2013. Natalie the difficulties of obamacare but also -- saw a leader. Who. Frankly did not tell the truth you can argue that one election in part under false pretense. So this is that a great disappointment. And have a question races how to people react to this kind of disappointment. Especially when they've invested so much in the pulpit in the leader. And -- in this article I mentioned three possibilities. They can be accepted in some ways which is what most of Miller writes stated they well. It isn't quite as it turned out. Have disappointed. I'm gonna turn away from this -- go on and lead my life. Doesn't mean that they don't support the president. But it does mean they no longer believe in the chilly out -- -- -- pulpit aspects of that. And there are few people in the administration that feel that way but I think a large part of the American people within that group like call those the captors. Except the reality and the question is whether they gonna do now that they'd they'd field with some way they've been -- Or that the world isn't quite as what they hoped it would be they have to region up. You -- mention -- -- deny -- those who would invest so much in this that they can't possibly admit that it's -- they look for excuses to say why it isn't though. You base these two and there's a third one -- -- -- is he based these three categories on a book Leon fasting errors. When prophesy fails it's a sixty years old so these are categories understood. They're not created for. The press and -- political tangled. The third one is to deflect her I -- spend a little time with the deny airs in the game and the deflect his chains because it seems that those voices. Are the strongest right now with the Obama administration. Is that to be expected that the loud as voices would be in denial or finding an explanation. It is to be expected for those who stay with the leader after all they have to justify the situation how was -- It's psychologically. That that leader to -- it would and you've invested so much at least so much how would that. What it seems that he's failed. How is it that the -- you can continue to date that he succeeded. One way is to deny. And but -- -- and I use use use somehow. Put forward the idea that. Think activate scene might look like he's failed but he actually succeeded. And we filed this and a lot of the reactions to the to what happened to thirteen among those in the administration I think. To meet from the point of view reality. Unbelievable those statements. About. 2013. Which is only 5% of the American people were affected by is that. Deception. On you can have you to keep your doctor if you want to only 5%. Which it turns out it maybe. Two or three times the number of people live in New York City. That's a lot that's just the beginning pocket you deceive yourself in this way. -- the desires that we find. In the history of religion. That this indeed is the case this is what I think this book of psychology showed you invest so much. Which you can't accept the reality you have to. To deny it can create as it were reality of your own. I -- speak to the defectors because that he is a striking. Analysis. Of what we are also witnessing on cable television and in the newspapers. Deflect tears are people as I understand it who find an explanation for the disappointment how does that work camps. Well they a bit a little bit. Is that they see that there is a problem that things haven't worked out. But instead of saying that they that this was the result -- they deny that they say it would have -- -- infected some ways it did happen. But for some other sport in in in the light that prevented the good that we expected from actually physically occur. So and that's a long explanation but in the case today the argument is. Yep Obama what the head of -- this great cause and transformation. He would've brought it about -- he. Almost did bring it about but it's prevented from coming about because that -- -- evil force which is. Stopped it and indicated it indicates today that would could be. The racism of the American people or more likely to point out. -- these forces called. This functional government which really means the Republicans or polarization. -- forces which stopped Obama from getting what he should. And that's I think is that the characteristic of that stance of many today. They still believe in Obama but it hasn't happened not because he wasn't a good person but because others prevented it from occurring. There's also the suggestion that the president himself is joining one of these groups and I'm. I know that he's not a deny air because theirs and his languages softened a little bit about his expectations of what he can achieve in his two administrations. Is he -- deflect or James or see and accept -- how do you read him. Well. I predict that read him I don't wanna go into psychology INS but in. -- how he -- -- there is as of parts but mostly deflection deflected. Recent interviews he he always have some excuse for why it didn't happen but it's where it should. It's not a hoax -- there's no hoax. He doesn't say look I raised the -- was just this attempt senate campaign. -- It got -- elected. He doesn't think that I don't deserve the status of being a cult leader doesn't anyone think it's about this would have happened but for. Of these other forces which stopped it in the bud or even today he's still mentions. That races in the the American people more gently than it did before. Still bring that up six years into his private pictures into it. Is that term as president. And mostly that it's about its opposition -- Republicans. Naming names. Which is Rush Limbaugh but for Fox News but for Rush Limbaugh. I would succeeded in this. -- -- What strikes me James is that this technique. Deflecting would work just as well before the opposition the Republicans for example in and fact it works anyone who goes too far into. Making a case that everything will change if I'm empowered. I believe that that's so when it's as if you want to get to the psychology of this these are ways of coping with. The painful fact that things that's happening issue like that it has the psychological theory -- -- but don't cut cognitive dissonance touted as a human being cope. With the fact that reality is -- quite what you expected it to be have to bring order. Your psychological. This position in order to our YouTube link in the center of the mechanisms -- techniques that are used. I think it's striking James this is James he's a professor of politics that deal receive Virginia. That it the most recent editorial at the Washington Post a paper very sympathetic the editorial policy that the Obama administration. The word fantasy is used when talking about the president's foreign policy. That would support the idea that. The oh editorial board there is no longer deflecting and no longer deny they're willing to accept the fact that the president does not lived up to their expectations. You'd begin to see more and more voices. Accept. Or -- there. At one point in the article was to say in fact. This is the critical swing group inside of the American electorate taken away from the president. You have a group of except there's they're gonna determine the fate of the future and -- somehow gonna. Continue to vote for Obama despite this -- any except they're the ones that the Republican Party could win over. Course just the fact that you accept doesn't mean that you're gonna agree but. The Republicans have been in a way pitched their arguments he accepted desires and the collectors they're gonna remain. With the the president it's the accepted that is the key swing group and I prefer to think of those people rather than call speaker of independence I think -- that there's. Really gets -- I think the key group because that's term in the state of the next two election. The great disappointment of Tony thirteen James WCs are writing most recently at the weekly standard I'm John bachelor this is the John -- Russia. The John bachelor this to John bachelor show. Gordon Chang my colleague and friend is on the road however I catch up with him down because. One that need to comment on these phone call between the president of the United States. And the president of China she didn't paint over Ukraine crisis in this call we're told by the White House took place in the last 24 hours the subject was. Ukraine however there's language here that's especially ironic. Given what we know about China's aggression over these last years. The president I'd I'd go for the White House statement the president and the president of China spoke. And they agreed on quote the importance of upholding principles of sovereignty and territorial integrity both in the context of Ukraine. And this is important. Also for the broader functioning of the international system. Gordon a very good evening -- we don't know what presidencies in -- said in response to that. Do you believe he interpreted this as a loaded remark as aimed at China or do you think he thought. That mr. Obama was just focusing on Ukraine. I think good presidency contain these very concerned about territorial. So poverty and so therefore that language in the White House -- Is meant certainly moved the Chinese away from so -- however Chinese statements about the situation in Ukraine. And they've hurt Russia more than the west. And that's built on the issue because you would think that the Chinese web site for us other than what. And unfortunately go into agent and have a very good relationship and the Chinese are doing all the -- -- not to undermine their friends -- -- Now we go to what might be at the center -- she's in things hesitation. Within these last hours the report from Asia is that. China China's ships warship. Patrolling an area of the South China Sea to sea -- new territory. New territory from Philippines. -- our marshals Gordon is ax located very carefully this last year were seized a year ago in the South China -- that just took they said you're not gonna do anything about it we're gonna take it the South China Sea is claimed by all of the South China Sea is claimed by China. But now this is a new ground it's called the second Thomas Scholl what is it Gordon and what have they done. Well second -- troll is about eighty miles away from one of the many Philippine Islands Palau is in the south China city. And it generally considered to be. Territory of the Philippines. Well today the Chinese Foreign Ministry said that yesterday Sunday. Chinese ships permitted to go in Brussels from visiting second hole. And the Chinese were bragging about it so essentially what's going on at the Chinese are bragging that they had -- and other shall from the Philippines. This is an act of naked aggression on. And it's also something we discussed immediately when Ukraine crisis started. That this would empowered China in its aggression in the East China Sea. We did not mention the South China Sea what you said was they already -- -- Marshall and we did nothing we let them take it from the Philippines there was no response. And now Gordon they've taken another one and so far I do not -- response from Washington. Yet there's no response from Washington at Edmonton -- -- -- -- very important matter. United States and Japan and recently held conversations about what to do about Chinese tactic with regard to -- -- islands in the east Tennessee. And there was disagreement and the Japanese bought in more resolute response. These sort of gritty tactics which are -- out either here or there but obviously they're very provocative. And the United States is not really coming up with a satisfactory response. Exactly what the Chinese are doing in the senate caucus and now even more boldly against militants. You know this is gonna continue until there's going to be a couple of and clearly the Chinese are taking advantage of what they -- quite correctly. As American weakness. You ask why the second Thomas show I've read that it sets at said gateway to what is called the reed bank that's in -- RE ED reed bank. Which is rich in oil and natural gas this is about natural resources. China's laying -- claim to it. By grabbing. Ocean or patrolling ocean or driving the Philippines. Away there is an Anglo Filipino consortium. From 2010. That started four exploring drilling in this area but they stopped it because of Chinese warships. Now the Chinese have pushed the Philippines away. And possession is nine actually in this instance possession is ten tenths of the law. Gordon I wanna go to China taking advantage of this while the president and Europe is distracted by Ukraine. You at this point do not expect there to be any response. Can we -- that President Obama might have raised this the White House won't say what they talked about. Can we gas that at least it came up. Well I hope that it would have -- what I really doubt it because really what we need especially. In this administration. But also the last one the real presidency checkered Chinese aggression. After all they took Scarborough show in 2012 when we did not been. You know we have seen a very weak response for the Chinese are doing this and there's. I'm not great that this administration decided it is not going to confront Chinese aggression and so that means. -- at some point this -- gonna get worse as we see them take more and more territory. And eventually there will be a complex. The Malaysian airlines still searching Gordon. However I've seen this story develop from the south China morning post that the Taiwan intelligence apparatus. Had warned of a possible attack against Beijing airport. You see there's a story elsewhere where peoples are concerned that there were explosives carried on board that aircraft. Can you connect all these dots -- it's still fog of war. Well it's still part of war but I think -- you can say that one of the keys narratives. Is that you have people who were going to stage an attack on the Beijing airport. They explosives on that plane to Beijing and apparently they detonated prematurely. You know of course we all know what happened until we have a flight data recorder and the voice recorder -- the cockpit. But at this point you know that is very possible narrative that the Taiwanese got -- -- more of the Chinese and in this is the result of what happened. -- puzzle for me Gordon. An attack on the Beijing airport seems. Out of proportion. To the resistance so far from China. We've seen that attack recently including Maine by people said to be weak -- attacking people on a train station. We've seen self simulations. In Tiananmen square and there was that man and his wife and his mother in law who drove recklessly on -- square. Several months ago. But nothing on the scale of a terror attack directed -- China this what if this follows that narrative and Taiwan's intelligence apparatus says that they had rumors summit. This would be a new page. Or certainly would be a new page you know requirement where else station attack last week it was a scale that you know -- We have not seen before you have a weaker have had you know violence. And then -- PlayStation and such things. But rarely there has never been sophisticated. Operations like the one we saw according to serve well maybe Muslim side Christian John circus in the public. In sympathy for what China has been doing to the readers can also be that we have the same artist. Trying to attack Beijing airport we don't know yet but clearly -- something that we have to keep in mind. Gordon Chang of Forbes dot com fog of war with the Malaysian aircraft no fog of war the Chinese are boasting they've taken another piece of the Philippines. I'm John bachelor this is the John vacillation. The New York Times reports from Libya indicate I'm powerless government anarchy in the oil fields and failed state. To learn more podcast always ready and John bachelor show dot com.